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The Ontology of Artificial Intelligence - with John Vervaeke and DC Schindler


Video from Jonathan Pageau


The Ontology of Artificial Intelligence - with John Vervaeke and DC Schindler

"This is a discussion that Ken Lowry kindly organized on his YouTube channel and podcast, Climbing Mt. Sophia. The panel includes me, John Vervaeke (@johnvervaeke) and DC Schindler. We talk about the ontology of artificial intelligence from different perspectives: the scientific, philosophical, and spiritual or theological perspectives.


John Vervaeke’s video essay prompted this discussion: John Vervaeke - AI: The Coming Thresholds and The Path We Must Take | Internationally Acclaimed Cognitive Scientist:    • AI: The Coming Thresholds and The Pat...   Timestamps: 00:00 - Coming up next 00:22 - Intro music 00:47 - Introduction 02:29 - John: Weak AI and Strong AI 05:46 - Cognition and computation 07:00 - Hobbes and Descartes 09:04 - The scientific argument 12:01 - The philosophical argument: Rationality 13:21 - The spiritual argument 15:10 - Thresholds and orienting AI 19:15 - 3 Possibilities with AI 23:07 - Jonathan 1: The economics 24:57 - Jonathan 2: AI is not our child 26:16 - Jonathan 3: Idolatry 28:32 - John's response 31:10 - A reason for hope 34:47 - Back to seeing AI as a child 36:16 - Theology will be the important science 38:32 - Can AI be wise? 42:00 - Schindler 1: Unity that transcends multiplicity and function 47:21 - Schindler 2: The Technological Spirit 51:07 - Schindler 3: The danger of us aligning ourselves to the AI 54:35 - There's no intelligence without life 01:00:24 - What is life? 01:03:18 - The persistence of being: reproduction, autopoiesis 01:08:54 - Darwin brought Plato back 01:13:12 - Symbolic structures 01:16:26 - Divination and gods 01:22:00 - Schindler and Vervaeke respond 01:27:10 - Nuclear weapons 01:29:31 - Sacrifice and our myth traditions 01:36:32 - Finding internal unity 01:49:35 - What god are we incarnating? 01:57:17 - The meta-solution" from the video introduction


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